Episode Transcript tracy Eisen

McKenna: [00:00:00] Hi, everyone, welcome to the Health it's personal podcast. We are in episode three of our Anxiety series, which is so exciting. Today we talk to psychiatric nurse Tracy Isaan. She was so incredible. Unfortunately, I couldn't be there, which was such a bummer. But listening back to it, she's just incredible. And I can't believe she didn't ever believe she would be a nurse one day because now she's super nurse. [00:00:22][22.6]

Sean: [00:00:23] Yeah, isn't that crazy? She told us before we chatted that she had never thought she would follow this career path. But here she is and she's doing amazing work. It's just I think her being a super, super extreme extrovert has really helped her in her career choice, as well as with chatting with us despite feeling a little anxious about it first. [00:00:42][18.7]

McKenna: [00:00:43] She's so fun and funny. She's from Brooklyn. [00:00:44][1.6]

Karen: [00:00:45] What I love about her so much is that she's so knowledgeable. So she has all of this background in research and all of this education and her own experiences, which is amazing. And so I feel like that must feel so empowering to understand yourself in that way. [00:01:01][15.6]

Sean: [00:01:02] Yeah. And I just love, like you said, with the way she said things just made so much sense for us and it helped us already. So I can't wait for other people to hear what she had to say because she was just so useful. And like I said, I could hear these things from other people or I've heard many of the things she said before, but the way she says it really sits well with me and it just kind of makes it click right. [00:01:26][23.7]

Karen: [00:01:27] Because you can feel her passion for sure. I feel like she and I are kindred spirits because I love so much the brain. I'm so fascinated by how the brain works. And much of my journey has been kind of the science behind it, figuring out what I eat or, you know, the things I put into my body and how it affects my brain. And just knowing and understanding that on a on a deeper level. [00:01:55][28.0]

Sean: [00:01:56] One of my favorite parts was just how she made us really relate to how this is a normal part of many people's lives and how we can't get away from our own minds. But that's OK because we're not alone. And we have other people we can talk to about these things to fully understand them. And when we name these things, sometimes it can be scary to find out more about these topics. What, like you said, learning more about the brain. Sometimes it can seem really intimidating, but I feel like once you do know these things, it really gives you power over them. [00:02:24][27.9]

McKenna: [00:02:25] Right. Totally. [00:02:25][0.4]

Karen: [00:02:26] Something that I was really surprised about was that she still doubts her worth. She has multiple degrees. Years and years of experience as a psychiatric nurse and also experiencing episodes herself. But she still doubts her worth and has to say, wait a minute. Tracy, you know, you're qualified to speak about this. You're amazing. And we do that, too. You know, we start feeling like we're doubting whether or not Sean and I, if we're good educators, you know, and it's like we've been doing this for 10 or 20 years and we've learned so much. [00:03:02][36.1]

McKenna: [00:03:03] Totally. And I think we all have moments like that. You know, she talks about her index card, having an index card to remind yourself when you're feeling anxious in the moment how to get out of it, which is brilliant in itself, but also a good exercise that I learned is when you're feeling when you're doubting to yourself. Seeing on paper all the things you've accomplished. Yeah. I mean, not that to say that that's all that symbolizes your worth because it doesn't. But reminding yourself like, oh, I remember I did this. And that gives me credibility for sure. Or a bit of an edge in this industry or you know, whatever is. [00:03:39][36.1]

Karen: [00:03:39] No, I think that's a great practice. Just sort of, you know, being your own best friend. [00:03:44][4.7]

McKenna: [00:03:44] Pumping yourself up. [00:03:46][1.6]

Karen: [00:03:47] Well, your best friend is not there yeah. [00:03:50][3.6]

Sean: [00:03:51] We're always talking about, like, build your team. But, yeah, it builds your team, but you're also part of your team. [00:03:56][4.6]

McKenna: [00:03:56] So, yeah, you're you are also part of your team. I like that. [00:04:00][3.6]

Sean: [00:04:00] There is an "I" in team. [00:04:01][0.4]

McKenna: [00:04:04] There's a me. Sort of. [00:04:05][0.7]

Sean: [00:04:05] There's a me. There's a me. [00:04:06][0.9]

Karen: [00:04:07] Or Stuart Smalley from Saturday Night Live. I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. And doggoneit, people like me. [00:04:13][6.1]

McKenna: [00:04:16] I love that. Listening back, I mean, I have been working with therapists for years since I was a teenager. And I have my personal experience with therapy and what I went through. But I don't feel I ever really talk to other people who are going through things like that or had already gone through things like that and come out the other side. While I was going through it, I felt like it was just me and my therapist and my mom, you know, maybe my friends as a support system. But listening to her talk, I felt like I identified with it so much. [00:04:47][31.4]

Sean: [00:04:47] Same here. I love how direct she is, but at the same time, it's really fun to listen to her talk because just the way she delivers things, I mean, she can say something that 100 hundred other people could say. And when Tracy says it, I just fall in love with the way she says it. I don't know what it is. [00:05:02][14.9]

McKenna: [00:05:03] Last episode, we shared some of our favorite things that we do to fill our cup. Just to give a good perspective so that we can be a support person for other people and be our best selves. And Sean was saying that some of his favorite things to do is make tea and coffee. So, Sean, literally. What's in your cup today? [00:05:24][20.4]

Sean: [00:05:25] Today, I made some Pike's Place roast from Starbucks in the Chem X so that's what in my cup. [00:05:31][6.2]

Karen: [00:05:33] I love how it's an event. [00:05:34][0.9]

Sean: [00:05:35] Yes. [00:05:35][0.0]

McKenna: [00:05:36] Yeah. Oh, what does your mug say today? [00:05:38][2.0]

Sean: [00:05:39] It says I put the lit in literature. And it has Shakespeare's face with sunglasses. It's a gift from a special friend. [00:05:49][10.2]

McKenna: [00:05:49] Oh, mom, what's in your cup? [00:05:51][1.8]

Karen: [00:05:52] Actually, water's in my cup today. [00:05:53][1.4]

Sean: [00:05:54] It's important to drink water. [00:05:54][0.6]

Karen: [00:05:54] I've been trying to hydrate. I know. Makes me feel good. [00:05:58][3.2]

McKenna: [00:05:58] How about you, McKenna? I've got a little Earl Gray situation. [00:06:01][2.6]

Sean: [00:06:02] My favorite. [00:06:02][0.1]

McKenna: [00:06:03] Honey. Coconut milk. A dusting of cinnamon. [00:06:06][2.7]

Karen: [00:06:07] I didn't know Earl Gray was black tea and lavender until just the other day when someone clued me in. [00:06:12][5.5]

McKenna: [00:06:14] Me. It was me. [00:06:14][0.8]

Sean: [00:06:15] Yeah. [00:06:15][0.0]

McKenna: [00:06:16] I said, this is black tea with lavender. [00:06:18][2.4]

Sean: [00:06:20] And bergamot. [00:06:20][0.3]

Karen: [00:06:22] Did you say bergamot? [00:06:22][0.6]

Sean: [00:06:23] Bergamot. Bergamot. [00:06:23][0.0]

McKenna: [00:06:25] Oh, bergamot. Yeah. It might be bergamot instead of lavender,. [00:06:28][3.1]

Sean: [00:06:29] But lavender or gray is very good. Yeah. [00:06:30][1.7]

Karen: [00:06:30] Check your sources, folks. [00:06:31][0.8]

Sean: [00:06:32] Check your source. [00:06:32][0.5]

McKenna: [00:06:33] Okay. [00:06:33][0.0]

Sean: [00:06:34] No, I love lavender. Earl Gray is really good. [00:06:36][1.6]

Karen: [00:06:36] But I just consume information. I just belive everything anyone tells me. [00:06:40][3.9]

McKenna: [00:06:41] Well, it's funny because I was reading the tag and I read the word Bergamont on it and I said out loud, lavender. [00:06:46][5.0]

Karen: [00:06:46] Peanuts [00:06:46][0.0]

McKenna: [00:06:52] If anyone loves Arthur. Yes, you'll get that one. [00:06:56][4.2]

Sean: [00:06:57] I love that so much. [00:06:58][0.5]

McKenna: [00:06:58] Do you remember the movie, Arthur? [00:06:59][0.9]

Sean: [00:07:00] Yes. Yeah. [00:07:01][0.5]

McKenna: [00:07:01] And there's the old woman in there, like in the house. And there's peanuts on the counter. And she's this old old woman and she just goes peanuts. [00:07:09][7.2]

Sean: [00:07:10] This explains so much. [00:07:11][0.8]

Karen: [00:07:12] Well McKenna uses that all the time when I just say idiotic things. Like random things. And she'll just go peanuts! [00:07:19][7.6]

McKenna: [00:07:22] I wonder if Tracy's seen Arthur, the 1981cult classic. [00:07:27][4.6]

Karen: [00:07:29] Yeah. [00:07:29][0.0]

McKenna: [00:07:32] Tracy has good taste. She probably knows what we're talking about. [00:07:34][2.2]

Karen: [00:07:34] Totally. [00:07:34][0.0]

McKenna: [00:07:35] I wish so badly. I could have been in this interview, but it was such a pleasure to listen to. And I know everyone out there is gonna love listening to it, too. So without further ado, please welcome. Amazing Brooklynite and self-proclaimed brain nerd. Tracy Eisen. So grab a cup of tea and enjoy. [00:07:54][18.8]

Podcast Intro: [00:07:57] Health is understanding what you being in for? Finding that balance of mental and physical. Building yourself a support system. Figuring things out on my own and not letting it hold me back. You do kind of have to advocate for yourself because it's personal. [00:08:12][15.4]

Sean: [00:08:15] So, Tracy, you're originally from Brooklyn, right? [00:08:17][1.7]

Tracy: [00:08:17] I am originally from Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn. [00:08:19][2.0]

Karen: [00:08:20] Amazing. We're in Brooklyn right now. [00:08:22][1.5]

Sean: [00:08:24] We're calling in from Brooklyn right now. [00:08:25][1.1]

Tracy: [00:08:25] Where in Brooklyn are you? [00:08:25][0.0]

Sean: [00:08:28] Well, let's see, we are in. [00:08:29][1.0]

Karen: [00:08:31] Oh, he forgets. [00:08:31][0.1]

Sean: [00:08:32] I should have had this up. [00:08:33][0.8]

Tracy: [00:08:33] You had to expect this question. [00:08:35][1.3]

Sean: [00:08:36] I know. I should have. We are in Bushwick. [00:08:38][2.8]

Tracy: [00:08:39] OK, so Bushwick used to be a part of Brooklyn that I wasn't allowed to go to, but now it's actually a really nice neighborhood. [00:08:46][6.5]

Karen: [00:08:47] Oh, my gosh. That's so funny. McKenna actually lives in Carroll Gardens. [00:08:50][2.9]

Tracy: [00:08:51] Carroll Gardens, I think has always been pretty nice. [00:08:53][2.0]

Karen: [00:08:54] It's really pretty place. [00:08:55][0.9]

Sean: [00:08:55] It is really nice. [00:08:55][0.0]

Karen: [00:08:56] Yeah. We're loving it. [00:08:57][1.0]

Tracy: [00:08:57] Much closer to the city, too, than Bushwick. [00:08:59][1.6]

Karen: [00:09:00] Yeah. When were you here last? [00:09:01][0.9]

Tracy: [00:09:02] Oh, we were just there in October for about ten days. [00:09:05][2.3]

Karen: [00:09:06] Do you miss it? [00:09:06][0.5]

Tracy: [00:09:08] I miss the fast pace of life there. You always have to keep moving. You have to get out of the way if you're not moving. There's a lot to do. A lot to see. People are very social and extroverted in New York and here in Arizona, the pace of life is just slower. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But I find that it can sometimes be a catalyst for my anxiety because I feel very go, go, go. And other people are very concerned. [00:09:39][31.9]

Karen: [00:09:41] Oh, because your personality and your background just don't fit with the super slow pace. [00:09:45][4.3]

Tracy: [00:09:46] It really doesn't, but that's also a really great reason to go into nursing. Right, because everything is very fast paced. Patients will always need you and emergency's come up and you have to be able to think quick. And that's one of my strong suits is thinking really fast, you know, on the fly. So. [00:10:06][19.4]

Sean: [00:10:07] So, Tracy, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself and what brought you into doing the career that you do now? [00:10:14][6.5]

Tracy: [00:10:15] Sure. So I have a degree initially from my early 20s in psychology. I have a bachelors degree. I concentrated and behavioral neuroscience. I always really like the brain and found it fascinating that neurotransmitters basically make up your biological basis of behavior. And so I, it's just always been very fascinating to me. And I wanted to be on the front lines of research. But after doing research for a couple of years, I got a little bored because I'm very social and I wanted to be closer to patients and more giving and more in contact socially with patients. And I wanted to kind of hone my empathy skills. And so I decided to become a nurse and I went into psychiatric nursing to work with mental health issues and adults'. [00:11:09][53.9]

Sean: [00:11:10] That sounds like it would be a good mix between what you had originally gone to school for and now what you're doing now. [00:11:15][5.2]

Tracy: [00:11:16] Yeah, it's been a really good mix because I understand how the medications work inside of the brain. And I also am able to work directly with the patients that are taking the medications and sort of help with counseling them. [00:11:32][15.4]

Sean: [00:11:34] That's awesome. So how else do you think your background has impacted the path you're on now? [00:11:39][4.8]

Tracy: [00:11:40] My background that brought me in to a psychology degree is basically when I was a kid, my teachers would always give me really good report cards. I got really good grades, but they would always tell my mom I spent a lot of time staring out the window and they didn't think that I was paying any attention. But then I would do really well on exams. And as a kid, I was never tested for things like ADHD. I was never diagnosed with an anxiety disorder. But hindsight's 2020. I definitely had a lot of those tendencies and characteristics. I was bright, but I just could not focus on one thing at a time. And so I was always just very fascinated because I felt sort of disconnected from my friends. They were different than me. They were always paying a lot of attention, vary into organization. And, you know, they would have all the cute gel pens and everything. And then there was me who was just a total wreck. You would open up my locker and just trash would fall out. [00:12:50][70.2]

Sean: [00:12:52] Crapalanche. [00:12:52][0.0]

Karen: [00:12:52] A crapalanche?! [00:12:52][0.0]

Tracy: [00:12:57] It was definitely a textbook case. And I had no idea. And so as a teenager, I really loved the brain. And I even did my senior paper in high school on epilepsy patients that take Phenytoin and the side effects of Phenytoin, which is an anti-epileptic drug . And so I just saw has been very interested in the human brain. And so when I went to college, psychology was sort of a natural jump for me. I thought I wanted to be premed and become a doctor. But I went the route that I did because I really enjoyed research. And so when I did psychology, I also had an opportunity to choose if I wanted to go the cognitive route. Personality disorders, things like that. And I chose specifically behavioral neuroscience because like I said, I just find it incredible that your brain produces these little signals and these signals are your base of your behavior and how we react to things, how your memory forms thoughts like. It's just incredible. [00:14:07][70.0]

Karen: [00:14:07] So incredible. Did you feel like when you were doing that research, you were just learning so much about yourself? [00:14:13][5.4]

Tracy: [00:14:15] I really did, actually. Especially when we talked a lot about serotonin. When I was 20 years old I was diagnosed with panic disorder, without agoraphobia, and I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. And I'd heard of serotonin before because of my previous interest in the brain. But I have no idea how strongly serotonin played a role in things like anxiety and depression. And they put me on a medication. The doctor did called. Should I say the med name? I'm going to skip it. They put me on an SSRI, which is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. And I had to know what this was doing to me because I was feeling better. And so I immediately started doing the research. I thought, what even is a neurotransmitter anyway? And that's just really how I continued to get into neuroscience. And I began to work in a lab where I worked with dopamine and serotonin and norepinephrine. And I looked at the secular docking in a specific nucleus of the rat brain with amphetamines, sensitized rats. And it just grew from there. I just could not believe how incredible these little chemical signals were. And I really did learn a lot about myself and why I behaved the way that I did, why I was staring out of windows. [00:15:45][90.3]

Karen: [00:15:47] You were talking about how when you were a teenager, you started doing research about neurotransmitters and serotonin and all different kinds of things related to the brain and how it made you feel. What were the things that you learned that really helped you to understand yourself? [00:16:02][14.8]

Tracy: [00:16:04] Well, some of the things that I learned were basically that anxiety is sort of a mix between low serotonin and low dopamine. And, you know, dopamine is your rewards center. Basically, it's a reward neurotransmitter. And so when I found out that I was probably lacking that, it made sense as to why sometimes I felt really depressed, why I didn't really want to get out of the bed. And then serotonin is your happiness neurotransmitter, basically. That also made sense to me as to why. Sometimes I felt really down in the dumps and with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors that that specific class of medications. What it does is it takes up more of your serotonin. And it it what your neurons do is breaks it down and creates even more serotonin from them. And so it's a great way to keep your levels going at a normal range. So I was really fascinated by that. [00:17:06][61.8]

Karen: [00:17:08] I love it. I wanted to ask if there's anything in your own life besides the medication that you referred to that helped balance you or helped make a difference in the way that you felt? [00:17:19][10.7]

Tracy: [00:17:20] Actually, yes, I have several different things that have worked for me other than medication. You know, I've gone through a process called cognitive behavioral therapy, also known as CBT and cognitive behavioral therapy, basically. Have you ever gotten stuck in a negative thought loop where maybe you're just driving down the street and you're thinking, I'm like the worst driver and it's just it's crumbles into you and you know what else I'm terrible at? And I can't believe that. And you just stumble into this negative loop where you start thinking really bad things about yourself. Cognitive behavioral therapy sort of takes that and it teaches you how to recognize negative thoughts and stop them in their tracks. [00:18:06][45.6]

Sean: [00:18:07] Oh, very nice. [00:18:07][0.2]

Tracy: [00:18:07] A lot of the negative internal monologues that we have for ourselves are actually something that we're not even aware of. And if you can recognize that your brain is starting to go through that monologue, there are ways for you to help out that and say, OK, but that's not true. So that's a really good example of this for me, would be getting ready to do this podcast. I felt like, oh, my gosh, I'm probably not a good enough nurse to be explaining this to people. And what if I get something wrong and I don't really know what I'm talking about. And I had to stop myself and say, that's not true, Tracy. So, you know, I was able to kind of turn that back around and say, you do know what you're talking about. Yes, you may have made a couple of mistakes, but you're going to do great. [00:18:55][48.2]

Karen: [00:18:57] Yeah, absolutely. I know Sean and I when you said, have you ever gone into a negative thought loop, we just both looked at each other like, please,. [00:19:02][5.7]

Sean: [00:19:03] All the time. Espically when I'm trying to fall asleep. [00:19:06][2.1]

Karen: [00:19:06] Yeah. [00:19:06][0.0]

Tracy: [00:19:07] Yeah. So cognitive behavioral therapy has been very helpful for me. Something else that I have found helpful is keeping an index card in my wallet with a list of things to do if I feel anxious while I'm at home. And on the back is a list of things to do or if I feel anxious when I am not at home. [00:19:27][19.4]

Karen: [00:19:27] Love it. [00:19:27][0.0]

Tracy: [00:19:28] So I've had this same index card in my wallet for, like I want to say, 10 years. OK. And so some of the things on my list of stuff to do, if I feel anxious at home, involves turning on my favorite TV show in the world, which is The Golden Girls always makes me laugh and takes my mind off of things. Going into the bathroom and taking a few deep breaths away from other people, which I also do when I'm not home. Another thing, I have a blanket that I really like. And yes, I'm in my thirties, but I'm still allowed to have a blanket that I really like that's been with me for a long time. And I will go and get my blanket and sit in on the couch for a bit. And, you know, and also my cat I mean, my cat is my lifeline. And there have been many studies that have shown that dogs and cats and actually many different types of pets are so incredibly important to our emotional and mental health because of their unconditional love for us. [00:20:33][65.2]

Sean: [00:20:34] That's wonderful. [00:20:34][0.2]

Tracy: [00:20:34] So, you know, when I'm home, I always look for him. His name is Fry. And when I'm not at home, some of the things I'll do if I get anxious while I'm in a hotel room, I will turn on a night light. Even just having a little bit of light in the room, if I turn the bathroom light on will be helpful. So everybody has their own little technique, little things that make them feel more reassured that help them. And those are just some of mine. And just having my index card with me. That I can refer to in case I get too panicky and I can't think straight, there's really been a game changer for me. [00:21:10][36.2]

Karen: [00:21:12] I think what's beautiful about that and really hopeful is that I think often we know those things that that we need to do to make those changes. But when you're right in the middle of it, it doesn't come to your mind. And so it's nice to have it written down. [00:21:26][14.7]

Tracy: [00:21:28] Yes. And, you know, other things that have worked for me as well include just going outside and walking. I mean, the act of simply moving your muscles is incredible. When I was younger, I would go outside and my mom and I lived in a condo complex that was one big circle. And I would put my iPod on and I would just walk this circle as many times as I could. And so, like, calm down and back that excessive energy out. And it was very helpful for me, too. Now, as an adult, I'll go to the gym and I will even if you just lift some weights, just walk on the treadmill for a few minutes. Releasing those endorphins is just so helpful for my body to sort of get distracted from the anxiety. And when I leave the gym, I feel really good and I almost feel like high five people as they're walking in. Like yeah, you got it. You know, because I feel so good. [00:22:26][58.1]

Karen: [00:22:26] That's amazing. Yeah, absolutely. [00:22:28][1.4]

Sean: [00:22:29] So we've kind of wanted to ask you, what lessons have you learned personally through all of this knowledge that you've gained through your career and through school and through your experiences? [00:22:38][8.6]

Tracy: [00:22:40] So I actually have one specific lesson that I want everyone to know, and for me, this was the shock of a lifetime. But having gone through anxiety since I was seven years old, that was my earliest panic attack that I remember having. And just really struggling with it all through high school. And I, I really want people to understand that. And now becoming a psychiatric nurse, as it turns out, and I'm not being sarcastic or mocking anyone, anxiety turns out to be a normal part of life. And if you would have told me this 20 years ago, I would have said, you know, I have a mental illness. You know, it's it's generalized anxiety disorder. Panic disorder. Yes. Your neurotransmitters are not quite at the right level when you go through it. That's true. But as it turns out, I don't know one person who hasn't gone through at least one episode of Anxiety where they just panicked about something, whether there was a reason for it or it was out of the blue and or even depression where some people wonder, I wonder if I'm actually depressed right now. It's it's incredible. And it's important to know that it's okay to talk about this with people because you're never alone. And sometimes I've told people about what I've personally gone through and they've been stunned and said I thought I was alone. I didn't know this was a thing. You're not crazy. You're okay. You are just like the rest of us. And we can all get through this together. And that's been the greatest thing for me. One more example of that that I'd just like to share as a child and even through my teenage years, I would get this weird feeling where I felt disconnected from my environment and my surroundings. I sort of felt like I didn't really belong there or something. Just wasn't right. Short moments. It would be just a few minutes and then it would go away. But it was really frightening when it would happen. When I was 20 and I was diagnosed with panic disorder. My psychiatrist gave me a list of symptoms. One of them was called derealization. And she's asked me, do you ever experience that? I said, I don't even know what that is. When she describes it, it describes every single one of those little mini episodes that I had where I just felt completely disconnected from my surroundings. And I cried, not because, oh, my gosh, I'm doing I'm having these episodes because it's so common that it has a name. I mean, I could not have felt more vindicated at that moment. So please feel vindicated if you are listening that you're not alone and you're okay and you should always be able to reach out to your family and your friends and and so listen to these podcasts and just know that you never by yourself. [00:25:56][195.9]

Karen: [00:25:57] That's such a beautiful message, Tracy. Thank you for saying that. I wanted to ask you, how much has going to therapy and having a therapist that you trust or someone that you can talk to? I don't know if you had parents that were supportive or because you did feel alone at some point, but how much has the support helped you? For those listeners that maybe don't know if therapy is valuable. [00:26:20][23.4]

Tracy: [00:26:21] So I found therapy to be very valuable. You know, a lot of people go into therapy and they think it's going to be, oh, well, you had a childhood trauma that caused all this. Like, it's going to be a psycho analysis, but it doesn't have to be that way. My favorite part about therapy is they're not there to tell you what to do and what decisions you should make. What they're there for is to help walk you through your options and figure out what can happen if you choose door one or door two. And I've never felt pressured by a counselor or a therapist. And it has helped me sort out my own feelings and my own thought process on making good choices for myself. So having an unbiased ear, somebody who would be totally unaffected by any choice that you make and genuinely just wants you to do what's right for you has been absolutely invaluable, in my opinion. Now, in my culture, as far as growing up, you know, you live in Brooklyn, so I'm sure you understand there are no unspoken thoughts on the East Coast. So it was always pretty welcome for us to discuss with each other exactly how you were feeling in the moment. My mom was always very supportive of me. There were times where I don't think she really quite knew what to do for me because I would just spiral with my anxiety. But she always made herself available for me and she would even come home from work early when I was at the height of my panic disorder, when I still really didn't know how to handle the episodes myself. So she always was very supportive. And I've always had wonderful friends that have been there for me, even in college, my first go rounds in college. When I got my degree in psychology, I lived with two girls that were just absolutely amazing. And one of them is still in my life now. And I would actually crawl into bed with her and night and I would just cry and she would let me do it. And I I mean, to this day, I'm still so grateful for her presence in my life. [00:28:29][127.5]

Sean: [00:28:30] That's really nice. I think it's definitely important to note that you can be supportive without actually having to jump in and have the answers. You can just be there to listen or to lie down together and cry or just to walk down, you know, around your condo complex or something like that. Just to have a support like that is nice. [00:28:48][18.5]

Karen: [00:28:49] I just love so much that you said that your mom wasn't always sure what to do, but she was there for you. And I think sometimes it's hard as parents when you don't go through something that your children are going through, that you don't know how to perfectly be that support. But I don't think it has to be perfect. [00:29:08][18.8]

Tracy: [00:29:09] Yeah, it really doesn't have to be. I mean, you know, there's nothing she could have done to make it go away completely. I mean, it was just all inside of me. And, I mean, I couldn't even do anything to make it go away completely. But just knowing that I had her support and that just by having her sit with me, it was so helpful. I mean, there were times you would just come and sit with me on my bed and hold my hands. So, I mean, genuinely, it the soul that I really needed from her in that moment. And it was very helpful. And like I said about my friends, who I would lay in the bed with her, it's just you don't have to give me advice. Just her being there and telling me it's going to be OK. That's it. That's all I needed from her was just to know she was there with me. And so I try to be that for my patients and for my friends. And now, I'm engaged to this wonderful guy named Matt, who is regaining some my yeah. When I panic, he he's there for me. And he's so calm, cool and collected while I'm all riled up all the time. And it's just great to be able to have him to help balance out my emotions and my my sharp reactions sometimes. So truly, it's invaluable to be able to have that kind of connection with other people that you trust. And they don't have to give you advice. They can just walk with you down your choices. And it's wonderful. [00:30:32][83.1]

Sean: [00:30:34] That's really wonderful. Yeah. Definitely giving back once you've had that opportunity for yourself. I know I've also had a wonderful support system in my life, thanks to friends and family. I feel very thankful for that. But I have a hardball question for you. And with this theme of not having to have the answers, don't feel like you have to have the answer. But I was wondering if you had any advice or practical wisdom to share with those, maybe your patients or maybe to the listeners who might not have a support system like that. Maybe they don't have a family member who understands or can be that support for them, or maybe they don't have friends who understand. Do you have any sort of advice that might help them? [00:31:17][43.6]

Tracy: [00:31:19] So there is a Web site online and it's free to use. And it's called Seven Cups, the number seven and the word cups. It's an app also on Android and on iPhone. And what it is, is that when if you're having just a crisis at the moment, when you really need to talk to somebody? But you just don't feel like you have any support in the moment 24/7. There are volunteer listeners. Who will be in support chat rooms with you. And they are trained through seven cups, so they don't have to have a degree in psychology. I just want to make that clear. They're not doctors usually. They're not certified therapists or anything, but they are there to listen to you and to help you confidential online self-help and guides, if that's what you mean. And so I myself have been trained through them and I also work with them. As far as being a trained listener and it's really a wonderful site and it's something, like I said, that's available 24/7. And they also do offer online therapy with certified therapists at a cost. But in the meantime, it's something that we're here for you. And if you feel like you have no support, there's always these chat rooms and you can also have private chat people as well. [00:32:45][85.7]

Sean: [00:32:45] That's wonderful. Thank you so much. That's going to be really useful for myself, and I guess I'd like to share that with other people as well. It's really amazing. [00:32:53][7.2]

Tracy: [00:32:54] So that's just one small suggestion, you know, for something where if you feel like you need something right in that moment. And, of course, you know, I'm always going to push the National Suicide Hotline phone number. If you feel like you're in a crisis and there's nothing that you can do right now and you feel like you're at the end of your line. There is always 1-800-273-8255. And that's the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. It's the crisis phone number. They're there 24/7 and they're trained to help you right there in that moment. But, you know, the one thing I just I also want to make clear to you again is that every time I have felt like this is my life now, I'm never going to get out of the cycle of anxiety. And and I'm just, this is just who I am now. It always goes away. And, yes, it takes some time. But when it does go away, it's like made it through it again. I'm a stronger person and you will be, too. [00:33:55][61.1]

Sean: [00:33:56] That's great. Yeah, I felt that way myself as well. When you're in that moment, even though you've done it before and you do just for some reason, can't remember that or you can't think about that in the moment. Do you have any advice for people who might have, you know, these warriors who have been through this situation over and over and they've gotten through to the other end. But when you're in that cycle, in that moment when you just can't remember making it through. Do you have anything that might help them snap out of that? [00:34:21][25.5]

Tracy: [00:34:22] Well, it might. I mean, I think my advice would be think about making that index card, like I talked about earlier, where, you know, when you're in a panic moment. Here's my emergency go to's. You know, it could even be your favorite song. It could be anything like that. But just something to ground you again. Another thing that I use, which is happens to be a useful Internet meme. Yay. Would be grounding your self for anxiety and it would be where you sit down and you you just kind of smell to things around you and you close your eyes and listen for five different sounds around you and look around your room and name three items closest to your left. And those are things that kind of bring you back into the moments and that brings you right back to where you're supposed to be, where you actually are. And sometimes that has been found to be very helpful for people that are just floating away with their anxiety there and a whole different planet. Now, bring yourself back to this planet. Bring your self back to the moment. Practice mindfulness. [00:35:31][69.2]

Karen: [00:35:33] That's really great advice, Tracy. I could definitely be more mindful myself. Is there anything that you're reading or listening to right now they think might be helpful for the listeners? [00:35:40][7.1]

Tracy: [00:35:41] Oh, perfect. So I personally love Headspace. If you've never heard of this app, you absolutely must go to it. There are some free areas on Headspace where you can listen to some of the things that Andy Puddicombe says. But he is just wonderful. His accent is fabulous. I can't get over it. [00:36:03][21.9]

Karen: [00:36:04] It's important. It's very important. [00:36:07][3.9]

Tracy: [00:36:09] Yes. And he is just absolutely wonderful. And he really guides you through meditation. But here's the thing about his meditation form. You do not have to be able to close yourself off to the rest of the worlds. It is OK if your mind wanders. And I just find it to be fantastic that he tells you that if your mind wander, it's OK. Come back again. Because for me, I've always kicked myself when I try to meditate. And I can't keep myself in the zone, you know. But he tells you it's okay to not be able to do that. It's natural, and it's OK. And he guide you through checking in with your body from the top of your head to the bottom of your feet to actually feel what's going on inside of you. And it just has really changed my life in a way that I feel so much more connected between body and mind now. [00:37:05][56.5]

Karen: [00:37:07] Meditation can feel really intimidating, and so it's almost like that app has changed the way people view it or makes it more accessible or feel more comfortable. [00:37:17][10.4]

Tracy: [00:37:19] Yeah. So that's my advice would definitely be if you'd like to check out something that is very helpful as far as meditation and mindfulness and nonjudgmental forms of it. That's definitely my advice would be to look into that. [00:37:33][14.4]

Karen: [00:37:34] Yes, exactly. On that note, who inspires you? [00:37:36][2.3]

Tracy: [00:37:37] Woah, this is a big question. Who inspires me? I would like to say, and I don't want this to sound like a copout because I genuinely mean this anybody that I know that has gone through terrible anxiety, depression or illnesses, health anxiety is probably one of my top biggest fears. Even as a nurse, I. I am very hypochondriacs. Anybody who has been through that and been able to pull through to the other side of that and to get past their fears. I mean, it is so difficult to get through anxious episodes. And I'm not just talking about your standard ten minute panic attack. I'm talking about those of us who have suffered with it for days at a time. I mean, if you have gotten through that, you are such a warrior. It is unbelievable. There is nothing that you can not get through because you can get away from other people when they're stressing you out or upsetting you, but you can never get away from your own mind. So I truly mean it when I say that I do what I do because of people like you and you've gotten through this before and I've gotten through it before. And there is no reason that together we can't help other people that are suffering through this as well. So I genuinely have nothing but a deep respect for everyone that has gone through anxiety and depression and come out on the other side with some bruises and some scars, but dusted themself left and said, all right, back to it, I guess, and just kept going. I think it's so impressive and the value of it just can't be understated. [00:39:25][107.6]

Sean: [00:39:27] Perfect. Thank you so much for that. That's really inspirational. It's definitely nice to see other people getting through those things and working together to kind of inspire each other. How did you learn about health and anxiety growing up? [00:39:40][12.8]

Karen: [00:39:41] Well, she learned when she was in high school. But when you were small, like seven or whatever, or did did you even know what was happening? [00:39:48][6.4]

Tracy: [00:39:49] No, I had no idea. And I think that's what made it even more terrifying, particularly that deep realization feeling. And you, even as a child, you almost know that's something isn't right. But you don't know how to articulate that because, I mean, you know, kids have such a different understanding of the worlds. And I think I I just didn't really know what to tell my mom when I was feeling that way. Other than I don't feel good. I don't feel good. You know, there would be times where I would wake up from a dead sleep at night and I would wake her up and say, help. I don't feel good. And I have a headache and my head is going to explode. And I was convinced it was going to explode, but it was just all of my anxiety and my worry. And I had no idea that I was abnormal. You know, some. Right. But I'm not different from other kids. And we just it's not something you talk about with other kids while you're playing freeze tag. And the mother may I, you know. So, no as an adolescent, I would say I had no idea that it was something to this extent. But as an adult, finding that out by studying a lot. [00:41:09][79.7]

Sean: [00:41:11] Right. [00:41:11][0.0]

Tracy: [00:41:11] And by going to school and by meeting other people that have suffered from something similar, it's really made a world of difference for me on that aspect. And that's really how I've learned the most. [00:41:22][11.5]

Sean: [00:41:23] Do you have any ideas for parents who might be able to be on the lookout for that? Early signs or? [00:41:28][5.0]

Tracy: [00:41:29] So some some signs that I could think of would be those complaints of headaches or stomachaches. Honestly, even though there's like let's say there's no actual, like underlying medical problem with with your your children, if they start complaining of those, that's oftentimes a pretty good sign. It's a physical sign of anxiety. Also, some kids start to refuse to eat or they over eat, sleep, adults do in their episodes of anxiety. So that could be sort of a a sign for parents to see difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep. Not always a sign of anxiety or could be a sign of depression. And then sometimes some kids will we'll ask what if all the time or they'll refuse to sleep in bed by themselves? You know, these are all signs of kids that are probably having some sort of anxious episode. Another thing I could think of, I was always seeking approval from my mom. Hey, Mom, look at me. Do this. Hey, Mom, look at me. Do that. Hey, Mom, listen to this. And just always seeking her attention and trying to get her to be like, wow, Tracy, that's great. That could also be a sign of children, you know, that are not having anxiety. You know, sometimes I think parents maybe if you just sit down and ask your child like, hey, did something happen at school today? I just think it's important to have that open communication line. [00:42:59][89.1]

Sean: [00:42:59] Just some of the things that you said, there were kind of things that I noticed from my own childhood, such as the trouble sleeping since I was very young. I had trouble sleeping. Not really wanting to eat when I'm feeling that way, even though I don't know how to explain that the not necessarily the approval. But I was always trying to make sure everything was OK. Not that I'm you know, I'm doing a good job. I'm thinking, did I upset you? Right. Even though I had no reason to worry. And I think that I've carried that on into adulthood. But that's OK. That's another topic. So thank you so much. That was very helpful. I think we just have one quick question for you to wrap things up before we head out. And I think this is something that we were all wondering throughout the whole call. And that's. How did your cat get his name? [00:43:44][44.5]

Tracy: [00:43:46] This is fantastic. I got nervous. I thought it was going to be a very difficult question. So Fry was found as a kitten in a dumpster at a Fry's grocery store. [00:43:57][10.7]

Karen: [00:43:57] Amazing. [00:43:57][0.0]

Tracy: [00:43:59] We don't tell him that. OK. The rescue nickname from Fry, but he thinks he's named Fry from the Futurama character Philip J. Fry. So it works. [00:44:10][11.2]

Karen: [00:44:11] That's an amazing story. [00:44:11][0.9]

Sean: [00:44:12] That's really great. Thank you so much. [00:44:13][1.2]

Karen: [00:44:14] Thank you so much for talking with us today, Tracy. You've given us a lot to think about sharing your resources and your story and making us feel connected. We really appreciate it. [00:44:22][8.7]

Tracy: [00:44:22] Thank you so much for having me. [00:44:24][1.4]

McKenna: [00:44:27] Thank you, everyone, for listening to this episode of Health. It's personal. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts. For bonus episodes and new releases every Wednesday. [00:44:35][8.3]

Karen: [00:44:36] Please listen. Subscribe, engage and send us topics we can explore that would help you on your journey. [00:44:41][4.9]

Sean: [00:44:44] Because Health: it's personal. [00:44:44][0.0']